Microsoft displays fear, uncertainty, and doubt toward OpenOffice.org
I came across this Microsoft OpenOffice 1.1 Competitive Guide through a post on the TTLUG mailing list, and decided to
answer it fully in a FDLed response because it will save quite a few people from typing everything.
...
<http://www.newsforge.com/software/04/03/27/0134204.shtml>
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<td align="right" nowrap bgcolor="#EEEEEE" class="subnav" style="border: 1px #666666 solid; border-top: none; border-left: none; padding: 2px;"><b><font size="1">March 28, 2004 </font></b></td>
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<B>Microsoft displays fear, uncertainty, and doubt toward OpenOffice.org</B><br />
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Saturday March 27, 2004 - [ 09:32 AM GMT ]
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<br /><b>Topics: </b><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/search.pl?topic=93";>Office Software</a>
, <A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/search.pl?topic=132";>Open Source</A>
, <A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/search.pl?topic=82";>Software</A>
<br /><B>By: </B><a href="http://www.knowprose.com/";>Taran Rampersad</a>
</font>
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I came across this Microsoft <a href ="http://members.microsoft.com/partner/salesmarketing/opensource/discguides/OpenOffice.pdf";>OpenOffice 1.1 Competitive Guide</a> through a post on the <a href ="http://www.TTLUG";>TTLUG</a> mailing list, and decided to answer it fully in a <a href ="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html";>FDLed</a> response because it will save quite a few people from typing everything.
<p>
<p><b>The
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Basics</b></p>
<p>According to the Microsoft document, the basic system requirements for <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> are:</p>
<p><i>* Windows (98, NT, 2000, XP) -- Pentium-compatible PC, 64 MB RAM, 130 MB HD; or<br />
* Linux (x86, PowerPC) -- 64 MB RAM and 170 MB HD<br />
* Solaris (x66, SPARC) -- 64 MB RAM and 240 MB HD; or<br />
* MacOSX (beta); or<br />
* FreeBSD</i></p>
<p>They did not, however, compare it to Office XP. We shall through <a href ="http://www.microsoft.com/office/previous/xp/sysreqs.asp"; target =_blank>Microsoft's own Office XP System requirements</a>:</p>
<p><i>* Computer with Pentium 133 megahertz (MHz) or higher processor; Pentium III recommended<br />
* # Windows 98, or Windows 98 Second Edition 24 MB of RAM plus an additional 8 MB of RAM for each Office program (such as Microsoft Word) running simultaneously <br />
# Windows Me, or Microsoft Windows NT®<br />
32 MB of RAM plus an additional 8 MB of RAM for each Office program (such as Word) running simultaneously<br />
# Windows 2000 Professional<br />
64 MB of RAM plus an additional 8 MB of RAM for each Office program (such as Word) running simultaneously<br />
# Windows XP Professional, or Windows XP Home Edition 128 MB of RAM plus an additional 8 MB of RAM for each Office program (such as Word) running simultaneously</I></p>
<p>* Hard disk space requirements will vary depending on configuration; custom installation choices may require more or less. Listed below are the minimum hard disk requirements for Office XP suites:</p>
<p> * Office XP Standard<br />
210 MB of available hard disk space<br />
* Office XP Professional and Professional Special Edition²<br />
245 MB of available hard disk space </p>
<p>An additional 115 MB is required on the hard disk where the operating system is installed. Users without Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows Me, or Office 2000 Service Release 1 (SR-1) require an extra 50 MB of hard disk space for System Files Update.</p>
<p>* Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, Windows Millennium Edition (Windows Me), Windows NT 4.0 with Service Pack 6 (SP6) or later,³ Windows 2000, or Windows XP or later.</p>
<p>* CD-ROM drive</p>
<p>* Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher-resolution monitor with 256 colors</p>
<p>* Microsoft Mouse, Microsoft IntelliMouse®, or compatible pointing device</p>
<p>Please do not forget the key phrase in these Office XP requirements: "an additional 8 MB of RAM for each Office program (such as Microsoft Word) running simultaneously ." That said, <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> more than holds its own, and does so in less disk space on more operating systems. </p>
<p>Being functional on more operating systems guarantees more cross compatibility between platforms, which allows users to change their operating systems, if they so decide, with a lower migration cost. So <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a>'s customizability could actually decrease costs in the future; it is not reliant on one operating system.</p>
<p>The Minimum Office XP requirements state 'Pentium 133 MHz machine'. In translation, this would probably be a machine used by a Windows 98SE user, which would require them to have 24 - 56 Megabytes of RAM, 375 Megabytes of Hard disk space, etc. </p>
<p>The XP requirements for Office XP are much more interesting. 128-168 megabytes of memory and 325 megabytes of hard drive space. </p>
<p>Let's compare again with the OpenOffice requirements for XP and 98SE: </p>
<p>'Windows (98, NT, 2000, XP) – Pentium-compatible PC,64 MB RAM, 130 MB HD'.</p>
<p>Clear winner: <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a>.</p>
<p>Now we shall look at their 'Value Proposition And Response'.</p>
<p><center><br />
<b>Value Proposition And Response</b><br />
</center><br />
<p><br />
Microsoft's document stresses that the licensing costs are not representative of the total costs of ownership, and this is a valid point. But let's compare, point by point:<br />
</p></p>
<p>* <b>Installation and deployment</b>: OpenOffice can be installed at no cost, and deployed easily. Microsoft Office XP, however, requires licensing costs and requires more hardware to run on (see above). It also requires that you run an operating system which must be licensed at cost. An international comparison of <a href ="http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue8_12/ghosh/index.html"; target =_blank>cost per license of operating system and GDP</a> is revealing in this regard.</p>
<p>* <b>Data Migration and Testing</b>: In migrating Microsoft Office documents to <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a>, some advanced formatting may be lost - and this is a problem, but it is unreasonable to demand this because of the fact that Microsoft does not make it's data formats public. </p>
<p>They make special note on the cost of migrating a Microsoft Access database to OpenOffice, but fail to mention the costs associated with upgrading a Microsoft Access database even with their own software. <a href ="http://www.fsc.cc/taxonomy_menu/1/2/42"; target =_blank>Free Software</a> and <a href ="http://www.opensource.org"; target =_blank>Open Source</a> databases are typically available at no cost, so the money would be spent on the actual 'liberation' of the data. Microsoft will require you to purchase licensing for SQL Server, and businesses will still have to pay for the migration of the data.</p>
<p>* <b>Document Conversion And Rewriting Macros</b>: <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> does not use Visual Basic for Applications, but has a macro language of it's own. It should be noted that Microsoft's macros are also incompatible with those of <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a>. Therefore, this is a valid point and would be part of a migration cost, yet one has to wonder at how complex such macros would be in a SMB. </p>
<p>*<b>Training</b>: OpenOffice is, for the most part, the same as Microsoft Office XP for a user, but there are things that they will need to learn how to do differently. All things being equal, if a company's staff need formal training for <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a>, then they probably need it for every new version of Microsoft Office. Therefore there is a cost on both sides, and they are at least equal. </p>
<p>* <b>Email client</b>: Microsoft notes that <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> lacks an email client. This, however, would take us to <a href ="http://www.mozilla.org"; target =_blank>Mozilla</a>, which is a standalone web browser with more features than Internet Explorer (such as tabbed browsing), and is much more secure than Microsoft Outlook as a default.</p>
<p>* <b>Collaboration</b>: Microsoft makes it a point to discuss that collaboration is required. Yet <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> runs on all major operating systems, and Microsoft Office does not. This certainly becomes an issue of collaboration. </p>
<p>They also mention that there is a need to assure mission critical data is impervious to virus attack -- and given the latest viruses, this does not bode well for them as all major attacks have taken advantages of flaws in Microsoft Operating Systems and even their Office software. This can lead down the path to security itself, in which ubiquity of Microsoft products probably has an effect. </p>
<p>*<b>Support</b>: Microsoft says that there is no dedicated team for the OpenOffice suite. What Microsoft fails to realize is that the 'dedicated team' are mainly the users; <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> has a community whereas Microsoft users have support groups.</p>
<p>*<b>Limited Compatibility</b>: Microsoft properly asserts that OpenOffice is not 100% compatible with their product. Microsoft, however, has apparently decided not to support the <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> formats either, for which they have no excuse: the standards for OpenOffice documents are publicly available, whereas Microsoft makes it a habit to sue people for reverse engineering their own formats. <a href ="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html"; target =_blank>Richard Stallman wrote about this in 2002</a>.</p>
<p><center><b>Total Value Of OpenOffice</b><br />
</center></p>
<p>(1) Ease of Use: While computer users throughout the world (including this author) have become familiar with Microsoft's Office suites over the years, <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> is not difficult to learn by simply <i>using</i> it. It's long been kept a secret, but no training in basic use of Office suites is needed; only advanced use of an Office suite may create a need for training -- regardless of which suite it is. </p>
<p>(2) Tailored Solutions: <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> has the benefit of permitting more customized applications to interact with it due to ithe Freedom associated with the source code, which means it will allow more people to develop custom applications which interact with it. Microsoft products require more Microsoft products to interact with them, they come at a cost and <i>limit</i> what a developer can do since the source code is not available.</p>
<p>(3) Better and Faster Work: Such comparisons are inherently flawed, since they would have to have the same users doing the same work on different Office suites. Let's face it: Users just want to do what they have to with their software. In this regard, OpenOffice facilitates this just as Microsoft Office does, but has the benefit of having the source code available for allowing more applications to interact with it. This means more potential productivity when dealing with the business logic of a SMB. </p>
<p>(4) Seamless Data Exchange: Microsoft claims seamless data exchange within Microsoft Office - but it's only between people using Microsoft products. OpenOffice allows people who use a variety of operating systems and data formats to interact with each other. Microsoft Office does not.</p>
<p>(5) Easier Deployment and Maintenance: Installation for either package is very simple. OpenOffice does have a clear benefit here: Service packs are not something one has to constantly look for (at this time). Further, simply installing the latest version of OpenOffice over a later version takes less overall time than constantly updating via patches and service packs.</p>
<p>(6) Security: Microsoft is brave to bring viruses into its marketing strategy when it has been one of Microsoft's greatest problems, despite all the nice things their Marketing brochures have to say about how secure it is. Where the rubber meets the road, Microsoft Office loses.</p>
<p>(7) Investment You Can Trust: Using <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> is an investment of your time, your energy and your future of being able to interoperate with people around the world, without worrying about what operating system that they use. Microsoft Office is an investment in Microsoft's time, energy and future. </p>
<p><center><b>Final Words</b></center></p>
<p>Microsoft used to have an advertisement asking where you wanted to go today; this is more true of <a href ="http://www.openoffice.org"; target =_blank>OpenOffice</a> since it allows you more control of your data through vendors and even inhouse staff who can help with it. Microsoft is dictating a future; this is why they do not allow Open Standards. </p>
<p>This is also why Microsoft spends so much time in courts around the world.</p>
<p><i><br />
Copyright (c) 2004, Taran Rampersad.</I></p>
<p>Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the <a href ="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html"; target =_blank>GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2</a> or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License" on the <a href ="http://www.gnu.org/"; target =_blank>GNU</a> website.<br />
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· <A href ="http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue8_12/ghosh/index.html"; target =_blank>cost per license of operating system and GDP</A><BR>
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· <A href ="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html"; target =_blank>Richard Stallman wrote about this in 2002</A><BR>
· <A href ="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html"; target =_blank>GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2</A><BR>
· <A href ="http://www.gnu.org/"; target =_blank>GNU</A><BR>
· <A href ="http://members.microsoft.com/partner/salesmarketing/opensource/discguides/OpenOffice.pdf";>OpenOffice 1.1 Competitive Guide</A><BR>
· <A href ="http://www.TTLUG";>TTLUG</A><BR>
· <A href ="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html";>FDLed</A><BR>
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<BR>< <A HREF="http://business.newsforge.com/business/04/03/26/1949240.shtml?tid=110&tid=85";>Commentary: EU action against Microsoft not painful enough</A>
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<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/03/27/0134204">Microsoft displays fear, uncertainty, and doubt toward OpenOffice.org</A>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88833"><B>I don't meet the reqirements for MS Office</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 6:11
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88833";>#88833</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">* Microsoft Mouse, Microsoft IntelliMouse®, or compatible pointing device<BR><BR>I have a Logitech mouse and its not written anywhere on it that it is compatible with Microsoft Mouse or Microsoft IntelliMouse so I obviously can't use MS Office.<BR><BR>* Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher-resolution monitor with 256 colors<BR><BR>There again I fail. I have a higher resolution (1280x1024) but in 16M colors. Switching back to 256 colors? no way!<BR><BR>
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<TR><TD><TR><TD><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88833#88836";>Re:You EXCEED the requirements (no failure...)</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 7:54</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88833#88886";>Re:I don't meet the reqirements for MS Office</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 20:01</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88833#88935";>Re:I don't meet the reqirements for MS Office</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 4:37</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88833#88957";>Re:I don't meet the reqirements for MS Office</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 9:57</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88838"><B>So, what's new?</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:2)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~OwlWhacker">OwlWhacker (153354)</A>
on 2004.03.27 8:15
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88838";>#88838</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Microsoft displays fear, uncertainty, and doubt toward any of its competitors.<BR><BR>This is basically Microsoft's way of admitting that OO.o is a threat.<BR><BR>This is a good thing.<BR><BR>I can't see how anybody but a gullible simpleton would believe Microsoft's FUD after all these years.
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<TR><TD><TR><TD><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88838#88922";>Re:So, what's new?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 0:20</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88922#88938";>Re:So, what's new?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 4:44</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88838#88929";>Re:So, what's new?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 1:39</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88929#88939";>Re:So, what's new?</A>
by OwlWhacker
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:2)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 4:44</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88838#88966";>Re:So, what's new?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 11:04</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88839"><B>(rotten) apples and oranges?</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 8:22
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88839";>#88839</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1"><i>They make special note on the cost of migrating a Microsoft Access database to OpenOffice, but fail to mention the costs associated with upgrading a Microsoft Access database even with their own software. Free Software and Open Source databases are typically available at no cost, so the money would be spent on the actual 'liberation' of the data. Microsoft will require you to purchase licensing for SQL Server, and businesses will still have to pay for the migration of the data.</i> <br><BR>the thing is the OpenOffice suites does not have a database at all. I believe StarOffice has something called Abacus and there is some free or open-source databases out there (PostgreSQL and mySQL until they changed their license) but these are not part of OpenOffice.<BR>This seems a major weakness in OpenOffice to me: the abscence of a simple relational database, easy to install and with some (but not all) of the features of the big ones. I know that many people hate Access 'kuz its too primitive' but look at the small business environment: do they run Oracle or DB2? Nope - most of the time they use Access and this is something which our community sorely lacks for the time being.
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 8:40</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88839#88878";>Re:(rotten) apples and oranges?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:25</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88839#88879";>Re:(rotten) apples and oranges?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:25</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88839#88888";>Oo.o *DOES HAVE A DB*</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 20:22</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88888#88891";>Re:Oo.o *DOES HAVE A DB*</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 20:47</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88888#88892";>Re:Oo.o *DOES HAVE A DB*</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 20:54</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88839#88914";>Re:(rotten) apples and oranges?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 23:18</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88914#88931";>Re:(rotten) apples and oranges?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 1:56</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88839#88934";>Re:(rotten) apples and oranges?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 2:37</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88839#88943";>Re:(rotten) apples and oranges?</A>
by ajs318
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:1)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 6:04</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88839#88960";>Re:(rotten) apples and oranges?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 10:17</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88960#88963";>Re:(rotten) apples and oranges?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 10:32</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88841"><B>Running a bit ahead...</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~Old%20Jacques">Old Jacques (188029)</A>
on 2004.03.27 8:32
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88841";>#88841</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">While I am trying to learn the OOorg programs, I must disagree with several of your points, not for any particular love of Microsoft or its products, but rather for a frustration with some of OOorgs "features", and the learning curve I am being subjected (and I am not a newbie).
It seems that many of your arguments were written as though OOorg already had the marketing leverage that MS Office has conquered over many years, and (yes) some hard work (at least early on, they overcame great obstacles to get on top of the heap).
I have yet to discover (after several web search and Help searches) how to show two pages side-by-side and discover a "format painter", other then adding a new named format based on the existing text and then using that to paint to the area desired - an extra step for which I don't understand the reasoning or necessity.
Just two little examples which, at least in my case, undermine the concept of <BLOCKQUOTE>"All things being equal, if a company's staff need formal training for OpenOffice, then they probably need it for every new version of Microsoft Office."</BLOCKQUOTE>
From one version of Office to the next, for the most part (but admittedly not always) Microsoft knows better than to change things which already work, so you can still do what you did, until you start learning extras and adding More New Things (which you probably didn't need anyway - but that's a different rant).
And most importantly (to me):<BLOCKQUOTE>"In migrating Microsoft Office documents to OpenOffice, some advanced formatting may be lost - and this is a problem, but it is unreasonable to demand this because of the fact that Microsoft does not make it's data formats public."</BLOCKQUOTE>unfortunately, since no one is physically coerced to purchase MS Office (or at least doesn't seem to have been proven yet) I don't see why Microsoft, a private company, must release its standards, just because it would be convenient to its competitors. And if the company uses a valid, functioning product, I don't see how they can be blamed if in using a competitive product, the competitor doesn't "get it quite right" just because I am unwilling to help the competition out of the "good of my heart" (we're talking business, not humanitarianism here...)
The capability (or not) of OOorg to deal with the data is one of its Davidian problems in overtaking Goliath, but it is silly for us to say that Goliath is injust unless he warns before taking a swing, just because David thinks it's cool to let out a yell before every stone's throw.
You can bet that if and when OOorg becomes a threat to Microsoft, it will either support the public standards already available, or suffer the losses (if it feels it can afford it).
Or maybe it will just try to buy its way out here too...
I do like OOorg, and can manage with the limitations it has with MS Office documents, but I don't see any reason to hide that the problems exist, just to play it up better against the competition without actually improving anything.
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 10:53</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88847#88853";>Re:Running a bit ahead...</A>
by Old Jacques
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:1)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 12:52</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88853#88926";>Re:Running a bit ahead...</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 1:07</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88841#88852";>Re:Running a bit ahead...</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 12:28</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88852#88855";>Sode comment</A>
by X-Nc
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:1)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 13:39</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88841#88912";>Re:Running a bit ahead... NOT</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 23:04</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88912#88928";>Re: Running a bit ahead... NOT</A>
by Old Jacques
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:1)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 1:32</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88843"><B>And for the next job - Linux desktop</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~ayeomans">ayeomans (167279)</A>
on 2004.03.27 8:56
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88843";>#88843</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Anyone like to comment on the <A HREF="http://members.microsoft.com/partner/salesmarketing/opensource/discguides/considerLinux.pdf"; TITLE="microsoft.com">Linux desktop competitive guide</A> [microsoft.com] that I referred to on
<A HREF="http://newsvac.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/03/18/2048250"; TITLE="newsforge.com">Newsvac</A> [newsforge.com]?
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:23</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88843#88946";>Re:And for the next job - Linux desktop</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 7:56</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88844"><B>Ironies to observe</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 10:15
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88844";>#88844</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">A couple of ironic points to make here:<BR><BR>1) The document is in pdf format -- not Billy format<BR>2) Apparently Billy office does not export pdf natively,<BR>a third party app is required.<BR>3) The document it turns out was written using<BR>quark express on a mac.<BR>4) They couldn't use Billy office format for their<BR>pitch, because (contrary to their pitch), acquiring<BR>Billy office is rather expensive for Joe user, and<BR>thus Joe user couldn't read this document in Billy office.<BR>5) If they had nevertheless pushed it out in Billy office<BR>format, folks would have had to download open office,<BR>to read their Billy office formatted paper that explains<BR>why folks shouldn't use open office to read Billy office<BR>documents.<BR>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88845"><B>MIcrosoft owns it.</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~SphericalCrusher">SphericalCrusher (187842)</A>
on 2004.03.27 10:17
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88845";>#88845</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Of course Microsoft is going to come up with a long list of reasons why MS Office is better than Open-Office, because it's <b>their product.</b> Also, MS Office has been around A LOT longer than Open-Office, and it is possible that it is better than it. Take into account that when MS Office first launched though, it was no where near as good as Open-Office is right now. Maybe that will mean something in the future for Sun Microsystems.
<BR><br>
"Software is like sex; it's better when it's free."
-Linus Torvalds
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:15</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88845#88913";>Re:MIcrosoft owns it.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 23:09</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88856"><B>Converting Documents</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~chiasmus1">chiasmus1 (174451)</A>
on 2004.03.27 14:25
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88856";>#88856</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">I have always had problems converting documents on Microsoft Windows machines. Maybe that is because the Microsoft Windows application developers believe everything should be secret.<P>
I know that StarOffice and OpenOffice.org are basically the same product when it comes to documents, but I believe it is important to note that OpenOffice.org documents can move easily between OpenOffice.org, StarOffice, and in the future, other applications using the format.
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88862"><B>Translation of old ad.</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 17:05
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88862";>#88862</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">"Microsoft used to have an advertisement asking where you wanted to go today"<BR><BR>And my translation used to be:<BR><BR>"Let us take you for a ride."<BR><BR>A Nony Mouse<BR>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88864"><B>Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~Juerd">Juerd (188032)</A>
on 2004.03.27 17:47
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88864";>#88864</A>)</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">(
<A HREF="http://juerd.nl/";>http://juerd.nl/</A>
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<font size="-1"><p>I work with PDF files a lot. They're easy to distribute and render well almost everywhere. It lets me distribute documents using fonts I like without forcing others who want to see it rendered as intended to install my fonts on their systems.</p>
<p>Microsoft also realise the benefits of PDF and decided to release their Competative Guide as a PDF document.</p>
<p>However, I create my PDF files using OpenOffice.org. Saving the current open document as a PDF file is a matter of clicking the PDF icon on the toolbar or choosing "Export as PDF..." from the "File" menu.</p>
<p>Microsoft Office does not have integrated support for exporting to PDF. In fact, for this document in which Microsoft defend their Office suite, they had to use third party software.</p>
<p>While Microsoft Office has a text processor (Word) and a desktop publishing program (Publisher), they used Quark, Inc.'s QuarkXPress to design their two page propaganda.</p>
<p>One would expect Microsoft to use Microsoft's own operating system (Windows), but it appears they think Apple Macintoshes are better suited for creating this kind of document.</p>
<p>If you run their OpenOffice.pdf through strings(1), near the end are these interesting hints:</p> <BLOCKQUOTE><nobr> <wbr></nobr><TT>/Producer (Acrobat Distiller 4.05 for Macintosh)<BR>/Creator (QuarkXPress\(tm\) 4.11)</TT> </BLOCKQUOTE> <p>I have created marketing material similar to this document with OpenOffice.org. If Microsoft think Microsoft Office is so great, why do they not use it for their propaganda?</p>
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 18:07</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88865#88866";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Juerd
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:1)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 18:22</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88865#88876";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:23</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88865#88882";>Publish it as an SXW and a KWD as well!</A>
by leonbrooks
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:1)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:30</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88882#88901";>Re:Publish it as an SXW and a KWD as well!</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 21:45</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88865#88885";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:56</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88865#88896";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 21:16</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88864#88872";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:15</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88872#88874";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:20</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88872#88875";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:21</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88875#88941";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 4:46</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88941#88967";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 11:09</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88872#88883";>Beware, troll and newbie...</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:30</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88872#88884";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:49</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88864#88881";>Re:Microsoft are afraid to use their own software.</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 19:28</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88864#88953";>You bunch of code geeks</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 9:13</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88953#88955";>Two words...</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 9:49</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88955#88961";>Three words</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 10:21</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88880"><B>Access DB conversion</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 19:27
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88880";>#88880</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">It would be nice to see mention of MS's free (as in beer, not as in speech) MSDE here, instead of assuming that a user is going to buy a full $1200 MS-SQL Server license. I believe MSDE is licensed (crippled) for up to 5 users, and is simply a cut down version of SQL.<BR><BR>Thank you for your time,<BR>BBH
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 20:30</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88890#88916";>Just say no to crack</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 23:25</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88893"><B>How about this</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 21:00
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88893";>#88893</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Take OpenOffice and shove it. I have used it, I dislike it I think it is the worse piece of junk on the market but what can I expect from something free. I will keep Office 2003 you keep Open Office.
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 21:22</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88893#88924";>We welcome your sentiments,</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 0:23</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88893#88933";>Re:How about this</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 2:16</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88893#88945";>Re:How about this</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 7:45</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88894"><B>Database migration</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 21:10
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88894";>#88894</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Even as a Linux/OO convert I oughta point out that migrating an Access MDB to an SQL Server db is pretty much a simple one-click-style process that only a total muppet would need to pay someone to do for them. Last time I did this for an employer (about 3-4 yrs ago, SQL Srv 2000) it was, anyway, though of cos the Billy Bunch may have mad it harder now to get some support revenue in *grin*<BR><BR>Mind you if your database is that improtant WTF are you doing running it under MS Access anyway...<BR><BR>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88895"><B>OpenOffice is very slow</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 21:13
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88895";>#88895</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">One problem with OpenOffice is that it is much slower than MS Office. On my system (P4 1.6ghz, 512mb ram, Slackware 8.1), it takes the OpenOffice word processor 21 seconds to start, while Word 2000 running under Crossover Office takes only 11 seconds. Even counting the overhead of the wine emulation layer and the fact that Crossover does not preload MS Office like Windows does Word still loads much faster. I typically use Koffice if possible myself, though the word import on Koffice 1.2.1 isn't as good as OpenOffice.
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 21:42</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88895#88900";>Re:OpenOffice is very slow</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 21:43</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88895#88902";>Re:OpenOffice is very slow</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 21:50</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88895#88907";>Re:OpenOffice is very slow</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 22:24</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88895#88908";>Re:OpenOffice is very slow</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 22:27</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88895#88911";>Re:OpenOffice is very slow</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 23:00</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88911#88936";>Re:OpenOffice is very slow</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 4:40</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88895#88919";>Re:OpenOffice is very slow</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.27 23:43</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88895#88925";>Why is "slow to start" important ?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 0:29</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88895#88942";>Re:OpenOffice is very slow</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 4:49</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88898"><B>You forgot one..</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 21:40
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88898";>#88898</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">MS says that OpenOffice is not compatible with MS Word, but..<BR><BR>(1) have you ever tried reading documents from one workstation to another using to same version?<BR>I've had to reformat text so it would look and print the same as the first..<BR><BR>(2) have you ever tried to read stuff from older versions of MS Office? Same as above..<BR><BR>Remember MS keeps changing formats every once in a while, and they <B>don't care</B> what your 'investment' is..<BR><BR>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88903"><B>MS compatability - only if you keep paying</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 21:57
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88903";>#88903</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">My Dad has office 97 at home - Office XP at work. He emails me documents and I resave them as 97 compatable. Updating Open Office is free.
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88904"><B>It's driving me mad</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~kmself">kmself (179112)</A>
on 2004.03.27 21:59
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88904";>#88904</A>)</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">(
<A HREF="http://twiki.iwethey.org/";>http://twiki.iwethey.org/</A>
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<font size="-1"><p>Please correct: "it's" is a contraction of "it is", while "its" is the possessive form of "it".
<p>Example of use:
<blockquote>It's annoying to read a NewsForge story and find its use of "it's" and "its" at odds with grammatical use.
</blockquote>
<p>Additional comments on substance to follow.
<BR><br> <A HREF="http://sco.iwethey.org/"; TITLE="iwethey.org">SCO</A> [iwethey.org]
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 2:13</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88904#88950";>A simple guide...</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 8:44</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88904#88965";>Re:It's driving me mad</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 10:58</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88905"><B>Thin Clients (LTSP)</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 22:12
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88905";>#88905</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Using a LTSP setup you can run Linux+OpenOffice in less expensive hardware (something like 200MHz processor PCs with 32Mb RAM, and without HD).<BR><BR>I don't know if it's possible to configure Windows+Office in the same way, but the license costs would exceed the hardware costs.<BR><BR>That's why it makes much more sense going full open source.
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88906"><B>Some bad points of OpenOffice</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 22:22
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88906";>#88906</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">OpenOffice have less features than Office, it's certain. But OpenOffice have all the common features most people wants.<BR><BR>One feature that is badly needed is a PIM like Outlook/Exchange with a possibility for macros (or extensions). Absolutly no equilavent in open source... A PIM (with a server like Exchange) named Chandler is curently developed and looks good !<BR><BR>These bad things are no good reasons for me to use Office though.
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88909"><B>Lack of support?</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~Sharper">Sharper (187830)</A>
<<A HREF="mailto:reversethis-%7Bmoc.weiverrednuskoob%7D%20%7Bta%7D%20%7Breprahs%7D";>reversethis-{moc ... } {ta} {reprahs}</A>>
on 2004.03.27 22:36
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88909";>#88909</A>)</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">(
<A HREF="http://www.booksunderreview.com/";>http://www.booksunderreview.com/</A>
)</FONT>
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<font size="-1"><BR>It's too bad there aren't any <A HREF="http://www.booksunderreview.com/Computers/Software/Office_Suites/OpenOffice.org/"; TITLE="booksunderreview.com">books and documentation</A> [booksunderreview.com] on how to switch, otherwise it might be easy.
<BR><A HREF="http://www.housewarereviews.com/"; TITLE="housewarereviews.com">Cool stuff for your house.</A> [housewarereviews.com]
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by zero0w
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:1)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 8:54</FONT><UL></UL></LI><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88909#88952";>Re:Lack of support? NOT really!</A>
by zero0w
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:1)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 8:57</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88952#88969";>Re:Lack of support? NOT really!</A>
by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 11:20</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88910"><B>Requirements</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 22:49
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88910";>#88910</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">We use Office XP and Office 2003 running on Windows 2000 and the following is the HDD requirements:<BR><BR><B>Office XP Full Install - 515MB HDD<BR>Office 2003 Full Install - 900MB HDD (roughly)</B><BR><BR>Now is this not BLOATWARE lol...<BR><BR>As for a previous note about OpenOffice taking 21 seconds to start up... What? Mine takes about 14 and i'm quite happy to wait an extra few seconds for less bugs etc... Worth it don't you think (aswell as saving on precious HDD space)...
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88915"><B>OOo slow if booting daily/after crashes windows</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~Fonze">Fonze (186447)</A>
on 2004.03.27 23:25
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88915";>#88915</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Yes, OpenOffice.org is very slow. Which version are you using btw? The latest release is faster than earlier releases. And from what I've read, StarOffice is even faster. Given that they share code, OpenOffice should get faster as its optimized.
<br> <br>
As others have pointed out, part of the reason is that Windows pre-loads parts of Office to get a faster start. That means its using resources even when not running. Also, there are optimizations that you can set that will speed up OpenOffice.org, especially if using an older version. One optimization is getting rid of the splash screen. A second is going to Tools > Options > Memory, and taking into consideration how much multi-tasking you do, how loaded your workstation or server is, how often you are going to run OOo, and how much memory the system has, raise the memory setting: "Use for OpenOffice.org" to something higher than 32 MB (for 1.1). If you have an older version, iirc, it may be pre-set at 24 or 16 MB. I've made this change on older versions, and it has had a dramatic effect on startup, when combined with eliminating the splash screen (which was larger on the older versions) and "Remove from memory after" (set lower) and "Memory per object" (less if used seldom, more if used often), etc.
<br> <br>
The memory optimization tricks shave some startup time from the start. I don't remember the numbers, but you can track this in Linux with "time" for measuring how long the startup takes.
<br> <br>
That being said, yes, once again, OpenOffice is very slow. That I'm sure, is thanks to the Java crap base, thanks to Sun meddling with Star's word processor (of course, without their meddling...). Unfortunately, people think Java is great, instead of the absolute garbage it really is, so I'm afraid OpenOffice will not be very fast any time soon.
<br> <br>
There are other important things to consider, however. First, you will also get the Microsoft fans who are in denial, make these faulty type comparisons. I don't use OpenOffice.org every day. I use it once a week, sometimes once every two weeks, sometimes less. So start up is noticeable to me when I start it. But during the times when I use it regularly, I simply leave it running. If I were using Windows, that would mean that I have to start my office suite during the daily crashes, and during the morning bootup. But I'm not using Windows, I'm running OpenOffice.org on Linux. So checking my uptime...up 9 days, 11:29, 0 users, load average: 0.37, 0.26, 0.20, I last booted 9 1/2 days ago. Since I swapped out a CD drive about that time, it sounds right. But my average uptime is about 3 months when not adjusting hardware. So in a single user/single system environment, I leave my system running, and when using my office suite, I leave it running. In a multi-user environment, where the fraudulent Microsoft comparison articles are aimed, OpenOffice.org would be installed on a server that runs 24/7, and users log in from their desktops. Yes, even on a small, several user lan, this is the right way of doing it. You get the benefit of backing up a single server, and everyone can log in to run off the server using the oldest systems that would have been thrown out years ago if running on Windows.
<br> <br>
Is OpenOffice.org slow? Yes. And more so if you boot every morning, and reboot after crashes. And reboot after re-installs after virus infections, from what I've been hearing from people I know who are running windows.
<br> <br>
Are there other options? I keep seeing Kword being brought up as an alternative. Not for me. I have the kword that came with kde 3.1.4, and it still locks up on me, still loses data instead of saving it, etc. It's a nice little experiment, but it isn't stable, and stable an office suite must be.
<br> <br>
Would OpenOffice.org run faster if it preloaded? Probably. Would I want it to preload? Not a chance. If I don't run it, I don't want it using my system resources at all.
<br> <br>
Another thing I haven't seen brought up is clustering. As exotic as clustering
<BR>
<P><B><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&cid=88915";>Read the rest of this comment...</A></B>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88917"><B>collaboration?</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 23:27
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88917";>#88917</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">On the collaboration issue, it seems to me that MS Office doesn't collaborate with itself very well. Trying to get something from PowerPoint into Word can be....frustrating.<BR><BR>Even though Project is not officially part of Office, getting a display from Project into ANYTHING else is primitive at best.
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88918"><B>Virus on openoffice.org</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.27 23:28
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88918";>#88918</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">A virus on openoffice.org. Word has a default macro that will run when you open a document, Openoffice.org does not. It is therefore not possible to install a virus simply by openning a document. I agree with the microsoft wording that the customer should take viruses into account.<BR><BR>KenF<BR>OpenOffice.org developer
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 0:23</FONT><UL><LI><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&pid=88923#88930";>Re:Maybe a virus for OO would be good for bloat?</A>
by Anonymous Reader
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<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 1:45</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88920"><B>Microsoft displays fear, uncertainty, and doubt</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~RJDohnert">RJDohnert (177110)</A>
on 2004.03.28 0:06
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88920";>#88920</A>)</FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">(
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/rjdohnert/";>http://www.geocities.com/rjdohnert/</A>
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<font size="-1"><p>" Microsoft used to have an advertisement asking where you wanted to go today; this is more true of OpenOffice since it allows you more control of your data through vendors and even inhouse staff who can help with it. Microsoft is dictating a future; this is why they do not allow Open Standards.<BR><BR>This is also why Microsoft spends so much time in courts around the world."</p><BR><BR><p>You know what, this article is a waste of time. It is so childish and so FUD filled all on its own there is no reason to even bother. Tell you what, be a zealot and write an article like one and you will have no one to take you seriously. Except of course the other zealots such as Roblimo, SVN and the other regular Microsoft bashers who no one takes seriously. Being and IT director this article didnt even encourage me to look at OpenOffice. It read like the regular "Open Source rules!" and "Free Software for all !!!" crap. This article is not encouraging at all and if this is the current state of the Open Source movement its seems you guys are taking the Mac route, turning this thing into a religous crusade than anything else.</P><BR><BR>
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 1:23</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88921"><B>Recognize the articles for what they are</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~Fonze">Fonze (186447)</A>
on 2004.03.28 0:11
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88921";>#88921</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">The Microsoft web site where the articles in question appear (there are more fud articles than just the Office suite article) was brought to my attention about a week ago. I think it was a Newsforge article that mentioned it earlier. I checked the other articles as well, and they also contain fud. But the Office article is Microsoft's response to their losing their shirt (and their 80% monopoly profit margin) due to their failure to compete with OpenOffice.org (hold your keyboards, Microsofties, we'll compare my claim over the next couple of quarters). I considered doing exactly what the author above did, taking apart their Office article line by line, paragraph by paragraph, simply because it was so easy. But I decided against it for two reasons. The first is that if this is the best they can do, why alert them? They are reading (and posting ala OS/2 wars style like they did on Compuserve and other boards during the OS/2 wars) Newforge and Slashdot regularly. They aren't just reading the sites, they are mirroring them internally so they can "study" us, to find the weaknesses and points of attack. So why point out the blatent errors in their articles, so they can make changes, enabling them to better withstand criticism?
<br> <br>
The articles are a complete disaster, especially when they really stick their foot in their mouth about security. But it isn't just the security part. The article is bad all over. So why help them strengthen the article? Either they are totally unable to answer OpenOffice.org's threat, or the person(s) who put the article together are totally incompetent. Either way, it is a win for the GPL community.
<br> <br>
The articles on that Microsoft page are not there to convince the converted. They are there so that CIOs and admins can have some documentation to cover their asses in their decision to sign that multi-year contract with Microsoft. That's what a large part of the community forgets. Most of the studies put out by Microsoft/Enderle/Didio/IDC/Gartner/Yankee are put out so that the suits can justify their decisions, and cover their asses. They already have their minds made up about what they are going to do. But along with choices, come chances. Why risk you job over a decision that can materially affect the company? Get the studies, stack the paperwork, and blame the studies and analysts when the next worm wipes out several million dollars of productivity and document reconstruction costs, and when the BSA comes a knockin'. The experts said to jump, we jumped!
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A company that has already made the decision to go with OpenOffice.org on Linux is a company that Microsoft is no longer interested in. Ask Largo. Microsoft (or was it Sun prior to their rebranding Linux as Java?) went sniffing around, and they didn't bother making an offer when they saw the setup. <b>Didn't even bother to make an offer.</b>
<br> <br>
Microsoft's intent with the articles are for the suits who need to cover their asses over their decisions, and for the suits who don't have a clue. I'm still running into small business people who don't know what Linux is (they heard the name Linux, but that's about it) and their reaction when I tell them that Linux doesn't have a virus problem like Windows is disbelief. Then the next reaction is "gimme" when I offer them a Knoppix CD. So Microsoft's hope is to continue picking off suits who don't have a clue, and therefore have no knowledge to refute the claims made in the paper. And their hope, and tactic, is to bury them in studies, and to gloss over the competitive facts, and to change the subject to their strengths, while avoiding like the plague the weaknesses in their comparisons. So if someone brings up, "well, I heard this, I read this", the sales force comes back with, "well, we have this study that shows this, and this other study that shows what I was talking about earlier, and this other study..." and the point the suit was making is already three points removed in about ten seconds. And there are studies to prove it. And the second sal
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<P><B><A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=93&cid=88921";>Read the rest of this comment...</A></B>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88937"><B>MS Office does look better</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.28 4:43
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88937";>#88937</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">There is one thing where MS Office beats OOo: looks. It looks better. I'm not talking about XP, as the only thing XP about my PC is my CPU.<BR><BR>But, OpenOffice is improving here. And I use it nonetheless.
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88940"><B>Very important point missing!!</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.28 4:44
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88940";>#88940</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Many people state that OOo has BETTER<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc compatibility than M$ Office!<BR>a) it can restore broken<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc files that Word cannot read any more<BR>b) it has BETTER layout compatibility to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc than the different M$ Office versions against each other!<BR>(even though its compatibility is problematic, it may still be better than e.g. when opening a Word95 document in 2000 or so)<BR><BR>Please add this stuff, not mentioning it would be quite unwise.<BR><BR>Also, the fact that I immediately stumble upon a missing important item makes me think it'd be a good idea to start a community process in improving it to be the perfect response to the FUD document.<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88954"><B>What Microsoft should have focused on</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.28 9:25
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88954";>#88954</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Bugs. Why does the Microsoft harp on things that are minor issues or are just plain wrong when the number one problem with OpenOffice is simply that it's still quite buggy? I tried to use the Impress presentation component of OpenOffice a couple of months ago, and it crashed on me about half a dozen times, and other times refused to apply styles or resize equations properly. It was an exercise in frustration.
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by Anonymous Reader
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Score:0)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="-1">2004.03.28 9:53</FONT><UL></UL></LI></UL></TD></TR><TR><TD>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88959"><B>Another important feature missing: XML</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:1)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
<A HREF="//www.newsforge.com/~gus_py">gus_py (188042)</A>
on 2004.03.28 10:16
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88959";>#88959</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Open Office use XML as their native file data format. A real plus for developers that want to extend the application or write filters filters. The use fo XML also make easier the task for migrating documents to other platforms (PDAs) and applications.
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88962"><B>Thank you for your analysis</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.28 10:31
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88962";>#88962</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">..and thanks for allowing distribution under this license. Thanks!
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88968"><B>Reverse Psychology</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.28 11:10
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88968";>#88968</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">Why don't we just post a story about how Microsoft Office is not compatible with OpenOffice?<BR><BR>Independant tests have revealed that OpenOffice is capable of opening 90% of Microsoft Office Documents yet Microsoft Office has not yet been able to open one Open Office Document.<BR><BR>The clear winner is Open Office.<BR>
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<td width="100%" bgcolor="#dddddd" class="grey_icon"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="+0"><A NAME="88970"><B>MS Reply on Open Documents: WordML is not open!</B></A> <font size="-1">(Score:0)</font>
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<FONT FACE="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" SIZE="1" color="#666666">by
Anonymous Reader
on 2004.03.28 11:23
(<A HREF="http://software.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=36867&cid=88970";>#88970</A>)</FONT>
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<font size="-1">On the 'Open Documents' format, the typical MS answer these days is:<BR>
<B>Upgrade to Office 2003</B>: Office 2003 allows to export Word documents as XML documents in the WordML format.<P>
Several OpenSource people get confused by this when confronted with such an answer. It's very important to realize the following:<BR>
<UL> <LI>It isn't useful XML: This might sound strange at first as a reaction. But the WordML format is a <I>Object Serialisation</I>. This means that it's possible to do full text searches in it or store it in a database - but that it's virtually impossible to create an application to visualise the file in the same way MS Word does. Microsoft also stated repeatedly that this format <B>is not for interoperability</B>.
<LI>They patented this format and have a very specific user license: they allow you to use this format, but disallow any usage that adds anything or changes anything to this XML specification. This means that if you want to write a competing word processor program which would be capable of reading/writing the WordML format, you still were NOT allowed to add any XML tags to the document format. In practice, this would mean you can not add any feature to the word processor that MS Word doesn't do.</UL>
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As always, it is Microsoft and it stays Microsoft.<BR>
I was especially suprised with their 'with MS Office you need only one vendor' statement in their brochure - given the current commotion in the European commission regarding their monopolostic behaviour.<P> <BR>
What's next for us wrt Microsoft and OpenOffice?<P>
They will probably add OpenOffice import and export capabilities in Word after a certain percentage of OpenOffice usage is accomplished (maybe even first for certain more critical regions than others).<BR>
<I>A good thing you assume</I> Wrong again - I'm not a MS basher, just an analyst of their tactics for over 15 years.<BR>
If MS implements OpenOffice import/export they will probably do the importing of OpenOffice documents correctly, but the export function WILL have critical problems (a deviation of certain standards, a so-called programming bug, you name it)<BR>
OpenOffice will have no other option to release a new version that resolves the problems introduced by MS then - hopefully quickly.<P>
An important -but often forgotten part of the FUD is the $4.8 billion R&D budget. It's a number that is not questioned as MS is known to have a lot of money. However - MS Office is a product with virtually no innovation at all over the last 10 years. The Microsoft team responsible for MS Office for Mac counts only 100 people (the real budget for the developement of Mac MS Office must be only around $15 million yearly). An incredible profit margin only sustainable because of MSs monolopistic behaviour.<P>
Microsoft invests enourmous amount of money in the markets in which it doesn't make any money to keep its wintel monopoly in place. And THAT's what makes up the big $4.8 billion in R&D.<P>
The last 10-Q SEC filing of Microsoft says the following (not that MS has a track history of accurate SEC filings - but anyway):
<LI>In the last 3 months of 2003 - a revenue of $2856 M was generated with $2130 M profit (Office is called 'Information Worker' in the SEC filings)- this means a maximal total spending of $726M - much of this will of course be marketing! Actual R&D on Office will probably be in the order of $50M or less...
<LI>MS presence in the embedded market or in the Home and Entertainment market could not be possible without its Office profit center. The vision that MS abuses its monopoly to gain an unfair advantage in these markets by the European Commission becomes very clear here.
<LI>Explenation about how 'Research and Development' is counted creatively are provided in the SEC filing itself <I>costs incurred internally in creating a computer software product should be charged to expense when incurred as research and development until technological feasibility has been established for the product</I>. Or: <B>any non-research costs for unsuccessfull products are acco</B>
<BR>
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