ΕΕΛ/ΛΑΚ - Λίστες Ταχυδρομείου

zeppelin hits back! (kaxypoptos mexri telous..) :O

> Γεια σας
>
> Προωθώ στη λίστα την απάντηση που έδωσα στον zeppelin, όταν 4 μέρες πριν
> έθεσε το ίδιο ερώτημα στη λίστα migra2linux του hellug (και στην lgu). Ο
> zeppelin δεν απάντησε στο παρακάτω και προφανώς ούτε και διάβασε το
> κείμενο.
>
To diabasa opos diabazo kai oti egrapsan oi loipoi se ekini tin lista, opos
kai se touti. den katalabaino, eprepe na eho peistei kai ara na min
epanalambano ta lathi tou parelthontos? tha po akomi mia fora, pos afou to
sizitao to thema, simenei pos eimai anoiktos kai tha po kai pali oti iemai
filos tis peirateias kai me aftin tin enoia exthros tis kathe megalis
eterias pou mou zitaei terastia posa gia ta proida tis (adobe,ms,macromedia)
kai gia ta pexnidia tis (ola panakriba). na po kai pali oti eho ta rh8 kai
oti epidi spoudazo pliroforiki (sto papei) mou aresei i idea tou open source
giati ki ego mathaino opos kai tosoi alloi san ki emena, eno me ta windows
tosa xronia mono parametropoiiseis borousa na kano. os edo kala.

diabasa me megali prosoxi olonon tis apopseis. diabasa episis kai diafora
sto net pano sto thema. loipon sigoura o kathenas leei tin apopsi tou, kai
sigoura kaneis den borei na problepsei to mellon.
afto pou anaferthike [gia tous anthropous pou doulevoun px sta petrelea i
stin polemiki biomixania kai ara plitode an iparxei irini kai solar energy]
einai sosto. odos einai to mono paradeigma pou teirei tis analogies. ta
ypoloipa einai ta perissotera kourafexala. nomizete pos i GAMERS pezoun mono
MULTIPLAYER games? den katalabaino.. ena soro pexnidia (px commandos) ehoun
terasties poliseis. kala eimai pepeismenos oti pote to Open-source den
prokeitai na epikratisei katholika sta pexnidia. borei na yparxei open
source graphics- engine. Omos o kopos tou anthropou prepei na adamibetai
(ego tha ithela na eho apopseis toso anatreptikes gia to systima, alla oso
pio poly kodra tou pao, toso pio poly me aporofaei..) epomenos ston
REALISTIKO kosmo (opos ton enoo ego, kai kala ton katalabe o debian guy..)
oi anthropoi doulevoun gia na zisoun. Den eipa pote oti tha ginei to megalo
krax apo to Open Source. Eipa omos oti ena 1/3 apo tous programmatistes ton
eterion logismikou (kirios UK and USA) tha prepei na psaxoun gia alli
douleia. den eipa pos einai oi monoi ston planiti. Omos diafono me tin
logiki sas peri proothisis tou genikou kalou, isos giati den eho peistei gia
afto. isos giati eimai kaxypoptos.
xerete ti mou eipe kapoios synadelfos?
an i MS niosei na apeileitai apo tin RH tote tha tin agorasei. isos ginei
kai afto. den xero ti mellei genesthai. pados afto pou ehi gelio einai a)
oti tin ellada den tin agizoun afta, dioti den ehoume kolossous logismikou
genikou typou (office,web design programs,klp)  b) stin ellada i IT einai
toso piso pou pragmatika simferei na agoraseis to linux para na to
katebaseis (logo 56K)
kai c) to 85 % ton ellionon xriston DEN tha plironan DEKARA TSAKISTI toso
stin MS oso kai stin ADOBE oso kai stin REDHAT.

bre guys, gia na telionoume, ego den anaferomai stous sinadelfous fysikous,
mathimatikous, pliroforikous, mixanikous kai sia [aftoi einai meiopsifia ton
users kai einai kai power- users (osoi einai)] anaferomai sto poly ton
kosmo, ton aplo pou den xerei kala kala na kanei setup ena programma. aftos
odos plironei SUPPORT alla to support tou erhete extra. sto linux plironei
mono to support. ta eipame kai ta xanaeipame afta. ta lefta den eiani ta
idia einai poly ligotera. to kalitero to elege sto net se ena FAQ:

we don't know really, but we're gonna try to explain.. (i kati tetoio).
kai ta explain den me peithoun katholou. oute afto pou leei pio kato o filos
me to programma sto center.
telos pados, den thelo na sas xalaso kai tin mera kai na sas leo sinexos ta
idia kai ta idia. yparxei xoros gia olous. apla den ehete katalabei oti
eseis sinisferete sto Open Source omos den apeiliste (os ellines) na xasete
tin douleia sas, akomi kai osoi apo esas eiste programmatistes san kiria
douleia sas.
kai profanos den ehete (oute ki ego eho) siniditopoiisei to thema tis
anergias i tis ptosis tis apasxolisis, kai mou lete oti as xasoun merikoi
programmers tin douleia tous.

alitheia, debian devoper, pos bgazoun lefta oi tis ADOBE? den mas eipes? kai
pos tha bgaloun sto mellon an oloi mas ehoun GIMP liked programs?

telos na po kati gia to paradeigma me ta petrelea. i nees morfes energeias
einai pio kales gia to periballon alla den erxode tsaba gia to kratos oute
gia tin politeia. kostizoun kai aftes (pio ligo apo to petrelaio) pados
kostizoun gia na boun kai gia na sidirithoun.. den erxodai TSABA

lypamai pou den eho katalabei giati to OPEN SOURCE den eiani tsaba
gia teleftea fora (se touto to mail) leo oti ena megalo pososto den dinei
dekara gia support apo tin eteria. tha balei dio anthropous pou xeroun na
kanoun oti kanoun.

isos na epanalambanomai. pados tha epidioxo na to sizitiso to thema kai me
ena oikonomolo (aftous pou koitane kabyles sinartiseon.. hahaha) na do an to
xerei to thema, kai ti ginete..

giati ego den xero apo oikonomika, alla mia eteria den ehi ta idia kerdi apo
to support, apo mia alli eteria pou poulaei to proion kai bgazei kai apo to
support

toso aplo. :D

exallou to eipe kai kapoios, oti glitosan lefta stin eteria tou pou ebalan
to linux, kai ta lefta afta pigan apokleistika (to leo ego afto) stis tsepes
ton diefthinton. Pes mou pos pirate bonus (iso me tin diafora pou kerdise i
eteria kai oxi me to 1 % tous kerdous pou eihan logo tis diaforas) ki ego to
boulono.
allios nomizoume pos polemame to monopolio kai to megalo kefalaio, eno stin
pragmatikotita to exipiretoume kai malista OUTE KAN PLIRONOMASTE gia na to
exipiretoume..
pou kano lathos den katalabaino.. toulaxiston an doulevo gia tin adobe alla
na plironomai kiolas. giati pio efkola o idioktitis tis adobe agorazei mia
ALLH eteria pou bgazei lefta apo to open  source kai plironei poly pio liga
(afto enoeitai ektos kai an ta exoda tis adobe i tis MS taftizode me afta
tis RH i tis SUSE).
ti na po, eilikrina se open source tha egrafa kai ego an elega oti eimai
edaxei. giati stin ellada grafeis open source kai den egine kai tipota.
kai na min poly-enadionomaste stin MS i se opoia Etairia giati borei avrio
na einai i ergodotes mas aftoi.
ergodotis = dinei ergo, emeis kanoume ergo, kai pernoume apolabes.
RH = plironei to 1 tis 1000 ton programmatiston (kai einai apo tis mones pou
plironei), osoi theloun kanoun ergo, kai den pernoun FRAGKO (den tous to
apagorevo, apla den boro na katalabo giati kapoios tha protimouse na
exipiretei ta kefalaia xoris na tous kostizei tipota, kai sas leo, poly apla
tha borouse o megalometoxos tis adobe na paei na parei tin RH.) ok to open
source den tha pethanei, kai kala kanei pou den tha pethanei, omos tha
prepei na brethoun kapoia standarts poly pio ikanopoiitika apo ta idia
yparxoda kai tin filosofia tou pou einai mallon pedariodis gia tin sixroni
oikonomia, allios dne prokeitai pote na epikratisei (kai polloi open-
source -ades to pistevoun afto..) i telos padon pistevoun stin meriki
exaplosi tou, diladi os ekei pou den mas agizei.

oi mathimatikoi pou kanoun erevna plironode.
oi mathimatikoi pou doulevoun sta frodistiria plironode.
oi fisikoi to idio.
oi kalitexnes, oi zografoi px, den DINOUN TSABA ton pinaka tous.

ti allo tha akousoume oti einai isa ki omoia i texni me to open source.
ego xero poly ligous zografous pou den eihan anagki ta xrimata gia na zisoun
(allo an ta piran oso zousan i anagnoristikan meta) pados to xrima kinei ta
nimata kai afto dne to leo ego oute o kapitalismos. to xrima einai ena apo
ta pio basika kinitra, kai ksexorizei apo tin doxa i tin fimi giati ta 2
teleftea den sou exasfalizoun mia iremi zoi, igeia, kali trofi, rouxismo klp
sorry gia tis filosofikes mou apopseis, alla etsi adimetopizete (ortha) apo
to FSF kai apo edo, kai apo padou to OPEN SOURCE ehei mia filosofia, i opoia
omos einai oti prepei sta xeria ton pio sigxronon kapitaliston (sic)

This is the end, beautiful friend.. (jim morisson, doors) kai aftous tous
plirosame.. se sinavlies.. se diskous. giati kai axizoun kai axizei na
bgaloun lefta. etsi skeftomai ego, opoios skeftetai diaforetika, skeftetai
(mallon) ek tou asfalous kai kala tha kanei na rixei mia kaliteri matia ston
kosmo giro tou pou i anergia kai i ftoxia ton odigei stin exathliosi kai se
katastaseis pou oute o MEGALITEROS FILOSOFOS den tha ithele na biosei..
(palco klp)

tsiou, kai (parakliki kano) min to blepete oute toso ideologiko, kaliteri
omos i praktiki efarmogi tis.
allios xero pollous pou extizan kommunismo stin plati ton ergaton pou
pethenan sta orixeia apo tis kakouxies. (opa, allo thema thigoume edo, an
kai einai alitheia afto pou leo, kai den to leo mono ego, oute kratao to fos
tis alitheias to legomeno)

xairomai pou kapoioi brikan to proto mou email endiaferon. kai tha itehla na
po KAI edo oti sto ELLAK.GR DEN anaferetai tipota gia to olo thema
(megaliteri ypokrisia den yparxei apo to na agnoeis ekousia ena thema) tous
to eho pei kai ekei sto FORUM kai tha to leo, giati borei kapoioi na lete
tin Microsoft M$ omos kai eseis den pate piso.. (kanete ta idia) kribetste
piso apo to daxtylo sas, kai xanete se sobarotita kai ousia, ektos ki an
nomizete pos mono ego to skeftomai kai to thigo afto to thema.
loipon kalo tha itan na to thigate kai eseis sto ELLAK.GR palio ypokrites
(to eho pei giro stis 4 fores se diafora simeia tou net [lists, forums klp])
to idio isxiei kai gian tin HELLUG.GR

den goustaro na katagello, alla eiste se merika themata (basika)
xrisimopoieite tis idies taktikes pou xrisimopoioun ta MME gia to linux
(epikinoniakos polemos) kai etsi gineste san kai aftous skotadistes kai
monoplevroi kai idioteleis)

kai ante na eisai idiotelis otan ehis simferon. eseis ti simferon ehete na
eiste toso monoplevroi (den sas plironoun, toulaxiston tous allous tous
plironoun..)



efharisto gia tin filoxenia, krima omos pou stin katagellia mou, (sto forum)
pira GELIES apadiseis tou styl:
"steile tin erotisi sto FAQ kai tin apadisi etimi giati o webmaster den ehi
xrono na asxoleitai.." kai kati tetoies M@L@kies.

xerete, skeftomoun na grafto stin HELLUG kai akoma to skeftomai alla oso
pernaei i ora toso mou anebenei to aima sto kefali.


bla bla bla (telos)

-eof



> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:41:38 +0300
> From: Serafeim Zanikolas <serzan [ at ] it [ dot ] teithe [ dot ] gr>
> To: migrate2linux [ at ] lists [ dot ] hellug [ dot ] gr
> Subject: Re: den xero an i alli lista (GREEK-LINUX-USERS) doulevei
kanonika
>
>
> > On Thu, 15 May 2003 12:17:50 +0300
> > zeppelin <zeppelin [ at ] techteam [ dot ] gr> wrote:
> >
> > > DOREAN (toulaxiston i paroxi tou software) kai telika odigoumaste se
> > > xespitoma kai anergia mia megali omadas SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT
> >
> > Η απάντηση έρχεται από το 1998.
> > [http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/software-libre-commercial-viability.html]
> >
> > As more and more people are choosing Free Software to address their
> > needs, I'm sure some software companies will try to demonize GNU/Linux
> > and both the Free Software and the Open Source movements because they
> > are losing their own market share. Such companies will probably try to
> > demonstrate that IT employment is decreasing and that humankind is being
> > damaged by the general adoption of Free Software.
> > ...
> > For example, I and others wrote a program for a local physiology center
> > to analyze data for a typical kind of experiment. During two years of
> > use, the physicians found so many ways to enhance the program that it is
> > now reported as better than the commercial solutions. The total of all
> > fees they paid during these years reveals the program to be more
> > expensive in the end than some of the commercial alternatives. This fact
> > is not relevant to my clients, as they have exactly what they want and
> > they know they can have more should the need arise. The program is
> > obviously Free Software and other centers expressed interest in getting
> > a copy.
> > ...
> > In short, I see no need for software companies to keep exclusive rights
> > on their products; the support environment is big enough to offer good
> > business positions in Information Technologies. Those who want to be at
> > the top could use some of the revenue to pay for Free Software
> > development, thus gaining access to the best software before anyone else
> > and associating their name with software products. As a matter of fact,
> > this practice is already pursued by the big distributions.
> >
> > Εν ολίγοις τα χρήματα που κανονικά θα έδινε ένας οργανισμός για άδειες
> > χρήσης μπορεί να τα δώσει για υποστήριξη και παραμετροποίηση ενός free
> > προγράμματος.
> <SNIP>
>
>  -- End of forwarded message --
>
> --
> Serafeim Zanikolas
> http://www.it.teithe.gr/~serzan/
> _______________________________________________
> Open-source mailing list
> Open-source [ at ] grnet [ dot ] gr
>




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